Category Archives: Debates?

Discussions and debates both, but that was a bit long for the sidebar

Children a Requirement?

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There’s a very interesting discussion going on over at this post at Becky’s blog. I entered tentatively into the discussion, since I felt I had something to add, offering a scriptural reason (permission?) for “choosing” the size of my family rather than “letting God.” Not sure of the readers’ response I think I went in a little defensively.

I interpret the managing my household bit of 1 Tim 5:14 to include choosing the number of children for my family. Some definitions of “manage”: to take charge or care of: to manage my investments, to dominate or influence.

“Taking charge” of the number of children, I think, is appropriate. I do this asking God’s wisdom and blessing in making that decision, and this is exactly the way I chose to marry my husband. You ladies that “knew from the first date,” or felt God tell you, This is the man! are very blessed. So am I. God actually left the decision to me. He leaves it to all of us. This is why it’s called *free will*. Free will does not automatically equal sinful will.

I believe as long as I am seeking God and remaining open to his leading, I am in obedience.

Right now I have three children. My body has markedly deteriorated (become weaker) with each pregnancy, and I’m only 27. I was unable to properly care for my family several times during pg #3, and if my desire is to best serve my family, “another baby for the Kingdom” is not the right way at this time. And it may never be again. I don’t know yet.

Becky then pointed out the point of her discussion wasn’t “full-quiver” (which I don’t subscribe to, and was vaguely arguing against) but rather the idea that every Christian couple is called to have child(ren), for X,Y,Z reasons, outlined pretty thoroughly in the comments section.

I feel less-defensive about this, not in a small way because I think children cause most parents to mature in ways they never knew they needed to. But I’m still a little uncomfortable with the idea that everyone who can has to.
The scripture that seems used most frequently is Genesis 1:28, that starts out,

God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth…”

As far as I can tell, the people who use this verse seem to apply it individually, that the call to be fruitful applies to each of us, especially as Christians. But I don’t hear anybody calling up Christians to individually complete the responsibility of the rest of the verse:

Rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, and every creature that crawls [a] on the earth.

Where is the shock– the calls to accountability!– that we’ve allowed Evolution-promoting biologists and mere entertainers to take over our God-mandated role of studying and training lions, whales, puppies and snails?

The only response I can think of is that the command– the whole command– was given to mankind. The group. And from my limited perspective (minus the evolution-pushing) those biologists are doing reasonably well. And the earth is getting “fuller” every day, from what I hear, so that command is also being carried out.

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So if we’re going to argue the for-everyone bit (that each couple needs to have kids if they physically can), I think it’d be more intellectually honest/consistent to leave Genesis 1:28 out of this. Continue reading »

About Debates

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I really waffle on the whole debate thing. I mentioned in my previous post that I don’t like debates. But there are times when I feel strongly about something, and I don’t know exactly why. I’ve found myself picking fights (excuse me) encouraging debate on these topics because I want to figure out why.

One example is Churchy issues. I won’t make a list here, but there are several places where I (because of the tradition I grew up in) differ from a number of people in my circle of friends. Some of them actually went to Bible School/Bible College (where my dad says they learned their stance. “Students tend to end up thinking like their teachers.” I pointed out the same holds true for us too). So they (seem to) feel absolutely confident in what they believe, and sometimes will even articulate with great lucidity (I like that word) why their view is true and/or reality from their point of view.

This showed me there are a couple ways to approach/use controversial topics. One is to explain the issue/topic using arguments and evidence, and one is to explain reality through the issue/topic. (Use the Creation/Evolution debate for your clarifying example here.)

Anyway. I have not been to Bible College, so I don’t have neatly packaged explanations for what I (think I) believe. But I do have a reasonable background in the Bible and have had the privilege to listen to people more articulate and experienced than me. So sometimes, when an issue arises, I punch out that I have a different view that makes me see reality *this* way, so can you show me why my view is inaccurate? Or, “This is why your view seems wrong to me. Did I misunderstand?”

This is when I like a debate. I like to find out if I have a reason for believing something. If they have a reason for believing what they believe, and whether those reasons are convincing.

The main difficulty that seems to grow from this is when the person I’m speaking with feels threatened or feels we are entering a competition. Then all the usefulness/fun is gone. Either they passively won’t engage (which drives me *nuts*!) or the interaction becomes much too high-stakes for my purposes. I really don’t expect they will change my mind.

Maybe I am trying to change theirs. But mostly, I think I’m asking for rain on my roof, so I can find the leaks. I’m not likely to move, but I’d hate to be living under a holey roof if a real storm came, so I’m trying to get things repaired now.

“Bless the Children”?

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Bless the children for they are the light
They are the truth of spirit in flight

–From Celine Dion’s song Prayer

These sentiments (a staple, it seems for songwriters and poets) always made me uncomfortable as a child. I felt alternately empowered and intimidated.

Intimidated, because how on God’s green earth was I (I took many things very personally as a child) going to fix all the things that needed fixing in this world. Especially if the (as I saw them) all-powerful grown-ups hadn’t been able to do it, how could I?

Who needs that much pressure?

Later, as an adolescent, then even more so as a young adult, the way certain people would talk actually made me feel “past my prime.” At age 18, I was distinctly aware I was no longer in the group of children-with-unlimited-potential. I was just another person. For a (very short) while I even felt sad that I’d somehow “missed my chance.”

I’ve come to see this view of children as flawed in several ways

  1. It is vaguely heretical (“They are the light/ They are the truth…”)
  2. It illogically expects a new product from the same assembly line
  3. It creates the feeling (conscious or not) that we adults are better than any previous generation because we will finally create the perfect environment to raise up these little messiahs.

After all, what happened to our shot as saving the world? Why haven’t generations of children before us done all that needs to be done?

The answer: “We/They weren’t allowed/empowered/equipped enough to do it,” reveals our formerly unadvertised sense of superiority. “They will succeed,” the voices say, “Because we are different. We won’t trample their divine spark, but fan it into flame.” Continue reading »

Connecting and purposeful parenting

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(Originally posted at Xanga.)I have these one-on-one consults I do for teaching FAM, and it is interesting to me how talking about something so personal seems to allow someone to completely open up about other parts of their lives.

I suppose I’m a fairly open person myself, so I didn’t think much about the freeness of others speaking to me until a few weeks ago when I told Jay my client and I had gotten off-topic quite a bit and spent time on parenting ideas.

“You really seem to connect with these ladies that come over,” he observed. And he’s right. I don’t know if it’s me, or the type of woman who comes (maybe a combination of the two), but, while we meet the goals of our time together, we never stay completely on-task.

One who came today commented as she was leaving how “inspiring” I was in the way I interacted with my girls. “That is so neat to see! I so want to be like that. I’m learning to be like that…” I thanked her for her kind words and said having the girls in a cooperative mood made maintaining that image a lot easier than it would be otherwise.

But it was encouraging to hear. Every now-and-then I get a really strong impression that I’m doing something right.

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Yesterday at MOPS, I got into this conversation about being purposeful in our choices as parents.

It started out being about looking for ideas to purposefully instill a godly foundation in our children. It surprised us how many people (even other moms in our group, from their comments) just “coast” along, without any plan. I can’t say I have any formal plan myself, but I have begun layering things into everyday routines, like the prayers at meal-times, and hymns and bible verses at bed-time, mixed-in with the lullabies and rhymes. I see these things laying a foundation; a vocabulary, if you will, that I pray I’ll have opportunity to draw on later.

The conversation moved into the importance of purposefulness in other areas of parenting: consciously observing your children to understand motivation, planning nap and bed-times so the child gets the sleep he or she needs, knowing your own child well enough to know what punishment is most effective in what circumstances.

We talked about the negative results of letting any of these things “just happen,” that it usually resulted in a need or opportunity being missed, or being less effective as a parent.

Conversations like these are very good for me, because they start me processing ideas and applications, and often bear good fruit. This time, it was encouragement “in due season,” giving me ideas as well as making me thankful for what’s going right so far.

Expectations

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(Originally posted on Xanga)

My husband is amazing. He has always had the type of maturity (I seem to lack) that sees something needing to be done, and does it. But especially lately, as I’ve been getting more and more run-down by this third pregnancy, he’s been stepping up to the plate and batting for both of us.I am so thankful for him. And proud of him too.

My mom thinks pretty highly of him also, and he recently told me about an e-mail she sent him listing all these great qualities she saw in him. He was having a crummy day, and when he read it he felt hugely ambivalent.

Naturally it’s encouraging to have your positive traits noticed and commended (I would think this is especially true if it’s your mother-in-law doing the noticing), but the big “drainer” (to him) was that he suddenly felt he had this standard he had to measure up to. (He seems to frequently react this way if he is complemented while down.) Naturally this is a tough place for me to fall into, b/c it sets me in the spot of trying to build him up without digging him deeper. Touchy job.

But fortunately I had been thinking about a similar situation earlier that day. Or maybe you could call it an idea that relates. If only in my own mind: I’m a good mom. I’m good at what I do.

There. I said it.

Have you ever looked at the over-all picture of your work and said that? I think there’s a lot more people who could than do.

Recently I switched from my OB/GYN doctor back to the midwife/birth clinic where both my girls were born (another story).

The midwife meeting with me asked why we were having this third. Laughing, because I didn’t have a concrete answer for her (“noyb”), I said, “I’m such a good mom I knew I needed another one.”

I immediately felt the blush from my neck to my forehead, but she didn’t seem to notice. “Well of course you are!” she replied sincerely. And I instantly remembered two other people who used the phrase to describe me (and, I think, to encourage me), when I told them I was pregnant with my third.

Now I have to be the first to say I’m not perfect (otherwise someone else will doubtless point that out), but who ever said that good has to be perfect?

This was the concept I shared with my husband that night. No one (least of all my mother) is holding the illusion that he is perfect. There is not going to be some sudden crash of scenery that reveals him as *gasp* human to an unsuspecting public.

And there won’t be for me either…